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Forum Studenti •Potenze contro fattoriali
Pagina 1 di 1

Potenze contro fattoriali

Inviato: lunedì 21 dicembre 2015, 9:16
da francicko
[tex]lim_{n\to\+infty}(n^n)/(n!)=infty[/tex];
[tex]lim_{n\to\+infty}(n^n)/((2n)!)=0{[/tex];
E ' possibile dare una dimostrazione elementare di questi due limiti?
Il primo e' evidente che va ad infinito, Comunque va sempre dimostrato in maniera rigorosa, come?

[Edit by Massimo GOBBINO] Ho cambiato il titolo perché il precedente era troppo generico (usare come titolo "Limite" nella sezione dei limiti non dice molto :? ).

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: lunedì 21 dicembre 2015, 12:19
da GIMUSI
sono limiti trattati ampiamente a lezione mi pare...per la dimostrazione mi paiono fatti a posta per un bel criterio del rapporto

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: lunedì 21 dicembre 2015, 14:24
da francicko
Ok, grazie!
Volendo per la risoluzione si potrebbe usare qualcosa di diverso dal criterio del rapporto?
Potreste darmi una mano per la soluzione di questi altri due limiti di successioni

[tex]\lim \dfrac{n\log n}{\log[(2n)!]}[/tex]

[tex]\lim \dfrac{1+1/2+1/3+\ldots+1/n}{\log n}[/tex]

Grazie!

[EDIT by Massimo Gobbino] Ho risistemato le formule.

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: lunedì 21 dicembre 2015, 17:46
da Massimo Gobbino
Uhm, temo che per i primi 2 qualunque cosa sia equivalente al criterio del rapporto, o per lo meno ad una sua dimostrazione in quel caso particolare. Detto altrimenti, uno può stimare in vari modi il fattoriale dall'alto e dal basso, ad esempio isolando una parte dei termini, ma così facendo sta sostanzialmente ri-dimostrando il criterio del rapporto.

Gli altri due limiti invece mi sembrano fatti apposta per il confronto serie-integrali.

Poi ovviamente si possono fare tutti anche con Stirling, ma quello è davvero un cannone spacca-tutto!

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: lunedì 21 dicembre 2015, 19:53
da francicko
Grazie infinite per le risposte!
La serie [tex]1+1/2+1/3+....+1/n[/tex]per [tex]n->infty[/tex]e' asintotica ad [tex]~logn[/tex]?
Come lo si può dimostrare( in 0 la funzione $1/x $ non e' definita).

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: mercoledì 23 dicembre 2015, 15:43
da Massimo Gobbino
L'asintotica per quella sommatoria si dimostra con le disuguaglianze di confronto con gli integrali. La cosa è spiegata tutti gli anni, compreso il fatto che il comportamento a 0 della funzione è irrilevante. Ad esempio è spiegato alla lezione 67 dell'anno scorso.

Quello che uno ottiene (guardando il solito disegno oppure più formalmente per induzione) è la disuguaglianza

[tex]\displaystyle\int_1^{n+1}\frac{1}{x}\,dx\leq 1+\frac{1}{2}+\ldots+\frac{1}{n}\leq 1+\int_1^n\frac{1}{x}\,dx[/tex]

da cui l'asintotica richiesta.

Un paio di disuguaglianze che possono aiutare a fare i primi due limiti con soli confronti elementari sono le seguenti (si ottengono banalmente maggiorando/minorando i termini del fattoriale):

[tex]n!\leq n^{n-1}[/tex]

[tex](2n)!\geq n^{n+1}[/tex]

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: sabato 2 gennaio 2016, 9:39
da francicko
Grazie!

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: sabato 2 gennaio 2016, 11:42
da GIMUSI
per i primi due limiti allego uno svolgimento di riepilogo secondo i diversi metodi discussi qui nel thread:
1 - criterio del rapporto
2 - confronto
3 - approssimazione di stirling

Re: calcolo limiti

Inviato: domenica 3 gennaio 2016, 15:17
da GIMUSI
allego anche uno svolgimento per gli altri due limiti secondo i metodi discussi qui nel thread:
1 - confronto serie-integrali (per entrambi)
2 - approssimazione di stirling (mi pare applicabile solo al primo :?: )